WHY DID GOD COMMAND THE SLAYING OF CHILDREN AND BABIES?

[Eddie Ramos]

Unless we learn to look for the spiritual meaning of every passage in the scriptures, passages like this one will never make logical sense. And so, what theologists try and do (who take the Bible at face value) is to rationalize what may have been God's reasons for commanding this to be done. But human logic is not the way to understand a spiritual book.

1 Samuel 15:1–9 (KJV 1900)
Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD. 2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. (FYI, this was over 360 years ago that the city of Amalek did this to Israel in the wilderness). 3 Now go and smite (the city of) Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass....... 7 And Saul smote the Amalekites from Havilah until thou comest to Shur, that is over against Egypt. 8 And he took Agag the king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword. 9 But Saul and the people spared Agag, and the best of the sheep, and of the oxen, and of the fatlings, and the lambs, and all that was good, and would not utterly destroy them: but every thing that was vile and refuse, that they destroyed utterly.

Not only did God slay the Amalekites when they stood against the nation of Israel in the wilderness, but because of that battle, more than 360 years later, God gives the command to uterly slay the Amalekites once again. But this time God commands to kill everyone and everything, including the children and babies. And what's worse is that everything (people and animanls) that was killed is said to have been "vile and refuse".

Can someone harmonize the above passage with Malachi 3:6 and Luke 18:16?

Malachi 3:6 (KJV 1900)
For I am the LORD, I change not;.....

Luke 18:16 (KJV 1900)
But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

[JehovahsWitness]

Can someone harmonize the above passage with Malachi 3:6 and Luke 18:16?

Jehovah (YHWH) takes no pleasure in the death of anyone (see Ez 33:11) , much less of innocent children. Unlike some of the pagan gods of ancient times, YHWH (Jehovah) did not require the ritualistic killing of virgins and babies for worship and his abhorrence of sacrificing infants is unwavering (Jer 32:35) .

That said, while divine compassion for the innocent is a constant (Malachi 3:6 ) , Jehovah God also adapts his actions to various circumstances, always making the wisest possible decision. When God ordered the complete annhilation of certain nations that opposed Israel, it was with good reason and for the long term good of humanity. Sadly this entailed the killing of infants and children.

We can be confident that God can and will resurrect any babies or infants he sees worthy of future life in paradise, where they can learn a different way to live than that taught by pagan parents in ancient times




JEHOVAH'S WITNESS



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HEAVEN , THE 144, 000 and ... BABIES & CHILDREN

[thomasdixon]

WHY DID GOD COMMAND THE SLAYING OF CHILDREN AND BABIES?

God never commanded any such thing, period.
1. Thou shalt not kill. (murder)
2. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
3. Thou shalt not steal.
4. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
5. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

[2timothy316]

There were certain nations where no one was to be left alive. (Deuteronomy 7:1, 2,; 20:17) These are the ones that JW pointed to as particularly vile people. Yet for the other nations that were not to be completely destroyed where was a process. First peace was offered. If they surrendered, everyone lived. Though becoming forced labor, they got to keep their lives. If peace was refused then war came upon the city. All males were killed. It also worth noting that revenge was heavily taught in pagan nations around Israel. While Israel was taught that vengeance belongs to Jehovah. (Deut 32:35) Leaving the male children alive that were old enough to remember the judgement on their parents by way of Israel would have likely sought revenge against Israel leading to revolt and more bloodshed. Young children and virgin woman were spared. Virgins were likely allowed to live because they didn't carry sexually transmitted diseases. (Deuteronomy 20:10-15,)

[Eddie Ramos]

WHY DID GOD COMMAND THE SLAYING OF CHILDREN AND BABIES?

God never commanded any such thing, period.
1. Thou shalt not kill. (murder)
2. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
3. Thou shalt not steal.
4. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
5. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

Please reread the OP, specifically 1 Samuel 15:1-9 and tell me who gave the command to slay infact and suckling?

[Eddie Ramos]

Can someone harmonize the above passage with Malachi 3:6 and Luke 18:16?

Jehovah (YHWH) takes no pleasure in the death of anyone (see Ez 33:11) , much less of innocent children. Unlike some of the pagan gods of ancient times, YHWH (Jehovah) did not require the ritualistic killing of virgins and babies for worship and his abhorrence of sacrificing infants is unwavering (Jer 32:35) .

That said, while divine compassion for the innocent is a constant (Malachi 3:6 ) , Jehovah God also adapts his actions to various circumstances, always making the wisest possible decision. When God ordered the complete annhilation of certain nations that opposed Israel, it was with good reason and for the long term good of humanity. Sadly this entailed the killing of infants and children.

We can be confident that God can and will resurrect any babies or infants he sees worthy of future life in paradise, where they can learn a different way to live than that taught by pagan parents in ancient times




JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

But you are dismissing the part of the scriptures where God describes that which was killed as "vile and refuse". The answer is because God doesn't look at people the way we do. We look at babies and children as sweet and innocent and incapable of doing anyone any harm (that's the way I look at them). But God is not like us in that aspect, instead, God looks at the part of each individual which no man can see. God looks at the condition of their heart. And the Bible describes only 2 types of heart, perfect (meaning having been given salvation) or not perfect (meaning still in your sins).

And since every human being, who was ever conceived the natural way, was conceived in sin, this means that everyone conceived is under the wrath of God because of their sin, unless God saved them in the womb (like John the Baptist).

Psalm 51:5 (KJV 1900)
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity;
And in sin did my mother conceive me.

This is why God uses such ugly language in regards to the sin nature of mankind, including infants and children.

Psalm 58:3–6 (KJV 1900)
3  The wicked are estranged from the womb:
They go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
4  Their poison is like the poison of a serpent:
They are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;
5  Which will not hearken to the voice of charmers,
Charming never so wisely.
6  Break their teeth, O God, in their mouth:
Break out the great teeth of the young lions, O LORD.

This passage (in its parabolic form) is understood to describe the sin nature of everyone before salvation. This is how God sees them and describes their spiritual condition. So, the reason God can and does (at times) command the destruction of mankind in general (men, women, children, babies, and those in the womb) is to demonstrate the punishment for sin which is death (Rom 6:23). This punishment does not discriminate any outward appearance (like we tend to do), it's simply God's just and righteous punishment for the sin of mankind.

In the scriptures, the city of Amalek typifies the kingdom of Satan, this is why when Joshua was in battle against them, that they only prevailed as long as the rod of God (which represents the Word of God) was lifted up.

Exodus 17:10–11 (KJV 1900)
So Joshua did as Moses had said to him, and fought with Amalek: and Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill. 11 And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed: and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed.

Exodus 17:13–14 (KJV 1900)
And Joshua discomfited Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword (this represents the Word of God). 14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.

God's promise to utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven is what helps us relate this nation to sin and to Satan, as it is this very thing that which will perish forever when God destroys this current world and creates a new one.

Numbers 24:20 (KJV 1900)
And when he looked on Amalek, he took up his parable, and said,
Amalek was the first of the nations;
But his latter end shall be that he perish for ever.

So, in 1 Samuel 15, God once again brings up Amalek to further teach us what he means by the utter destruction of sin. And as he does this, he does not exclude anything or anyone who has not been affected by sin, making them "vile and refuse" in God's eyes.

[Eddie Ramos]

There were certain nations where no one was to be left alive. (Deuteronomy 7:1, 2,; 20:17) These are the ones that JW pointed to as particularly vile people. Yet for the other nations that were not to be completely destroyed where was a process. First peace was offered. If they surrendered, everyone lived. Though becoming forced labor, they got to keep their lives. If peace was refused then war came upon the city. All males were killed. It also worth noting that revenge was heavily taught in pagan nations around Israel. While Israel was taught that vengeance belongs to Jehovah. (Deut 32:35) Leaving the male children alive that were old enough to remember the judgement on their parents by way of Israel would have likely sought revenge against Israel leading to revolt and more bloodshed. Young children and virgin woman were spared. Virgins were likely allowed to live because they didn't carry sexually transmitted diseases. (Deuteronomy 20:10-15,)

We must always keep in mind, as we read any biblical text, that the Bible is first and foremost a spiritual book (Rom 7:14). Therefore if the conclusion we arrive at is merely historical in nature, then we have missed the most important meaning of the scriptures and have failed to understand what God is trying to teach us in these historical parables. If virgins were spared from death, it was because of what they represented spiritually. They represented true believers who have been presented to Christ as chaste virgins.

2 Corinthians 11:2 (KJV 1900)
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

[JehovahsWitness]

.... God describes that which was killed as " vile and refuse".

Not everything that was killed was "vile and refuse" NOTICE:

But Saul and the people spared Agag, and the best of the sheep, and of the oxen, and of the fatlings, and the lambs, and all that was good

AGAG was part of the things described as "all that was good" - but God had condemned AGAG and Samuel eventually put him to death. So good things were killed that day too.





JW

[JehovahsWitness]

If virgins were spared from death, it was because of what they represented spiritually. They represented true believers who have been presented to Christ as chaste virgins.

And what of Rahab who was also spared? She most certajnly was not a virgin since scripture says she was a PROSTITUTE?

[Eddie Ramos]

If virgins were spared from death, it was because of what they represented spiritually. They represented true believers who have been presented to Christ as chaste virgins.

And what of Rahab who was also spared? She most certajnly was not a virgin since scripture says she was a PROSTITUTE?

I didn't say that only virgins were ever spared in the Bible. But God can and does paint the same picture in so many different ways throughout the Bible. So, we can't take what we learn as one type of representation and make it apply everywhere in the Bible. For example, was the nation of Israel God's children or where they his bride?

Exodus 4:22 (KJV 1900)
And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

Jeremiah 3:14 (KJV 1900)
Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

So, when reading a common book, the author typically will keep everything concise so as not to cause confusion, but the Bible's author (God) does not think the way we think, so we have to be attentive when he describes the same thing by many different ways.

In our unsaved condition, one way (of many) in which God descibes his elect is as harlots. This is who Rahab represneted, an elect of God who, in their filthy condition of sin, has been saved from his or her sins.

1 Corinthians 6:9–11 (KJV 1900)
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? (now God is going to use many words to describe the condition of being unrighteous) Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Those who truly became saved are described as having been (past tense) fornicators. Well, this word is the same Greek word that describes Rahab as a "harlot".

Now, after salvation (as 1 Cor 6:11 says) the once filthy fornicator (harlot) has been washed, but not just that, spiritually they have been made a new creature (creation) in Christ. This means that they are now untouched, like a virgin.

2 Corinthians 11:2 (KJV 1900)
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.