The 144,000 in JW theology

[Wootah]

My understanding only 144,000 JWs go to heaven in total over the sum of human history.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... to-heaven/

Is that correct?

There are 9 million JWs worldwide (rounded up).

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... w-many-jw/

Will the vast majority of them not go to heaven and be annihilated? What happens to the JWs that don't make the 144, 000?

[JehovahsWitness]

... Do you REALLY believe only 144,000 people are going to heaven?"

Yes.

Is there anything else you would like to ask me ?




FURTHER READING: Who goes to heaven?
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... to-heaven/




HOW MANY

Where do Jehovahs Witnesses get the idea that only 144,000 will go to heaven?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 33#p890333

Why do Jehovah's Witnesses take the number 144,000 to be literal but not other features of this group mentioned in Rev 14:1?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 66#p825066

How can millions be "saved" if only 144,000 individuals go to heaven?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 97#p846597

Does the idea of a fixed number of people doing to heaven support the teaching of predetermination?
viewtopic.php?p=1040335#p1040335

Does the bible support the idea of two different groups of Christians?
viewtopic.php?p=1022933#p1022933

WHO

Who are the tribes of ISRAEL referred to in Revelation?
viewtopic.php?p=1023147#p1023147

Who has the authority to choose the 144,000 for the office of rulership?
viewtopic.php?p=1046419#p1046419

Who are the 144,000 To rule over?
viewtopic.php?p=1055054#p1055054

Do Jehovah's Witnesses believe that only biological males will go to heaven?
viewtopic.php?p=1056049#p1056049

Why are the 144,000 described as "virgins"?
viewtopic.php?p=1060750#p1060750

How are the 144,000 described elsewhere in scripture?
viewtopic.php?p=1021558#p1021558
(Onewithim)
viewtopic.php?p=875857#p875857

WHEN

When did Jesus choose his co-rulers?
viewtopic.php?p=1046420#p1046420

HOW are the 144,000 going to assist Jesus from heaven?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 5#p1005585

Does the SEALING of Revelation 7:4 refer to the 144,000?
viewtopic.php?p=846594#p846594

To what does the final "sealing" refer mentioned in the book if Revelation?
viewtopic.php?p=1023143#p1023143

What is the link between God's kingdom and the 144,000 ?
viewtopic.php?p=1021864#p1021864

WHERE

Will those chosen to rule with Christ be resurrected to reign with him in a physical realm [on earth]?
viewtopic.php?p=1060803#p1060803

Why conclude the 144,000 are pictured in heaven when the verse does not explicitly state this to be the case?
viewtopic.php?p=1044585#p1044585

Will Jesus travel back and forth between heaven and earth during the millenium?
viewtopic.php?p=1051377#p1051377

In what sense will God "dwell" (tent) with humans?
viewtopic.php?p=1060794#p1060794

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

HEAVEN , GOD'S KINGDOM and ... THE 144, 000

[2ndpillar2]

... Do you REALLY believe only 144,000 people are going to heaven?"

Yes.

Is there anything else you would like to ask me ?


That begs the question of where and what is heaven? If Yeshua said the "kingdom" is at hand, per his disciples raising the dead and healing the sick (Matthew 10:6), where is evidence of you being in that "kingdom". As per the "kingdom to come", in which king David will rule (Ezekiel 37) in the land given to Jacob, how are you a part of that? As for the 144,000, they were marked on earth, and went through the tribulation on earth (Revelation 7 & 9). Did all the currently dead JWs miss that train? Where is heaven?

[JehovahsWitness]

That begs the question of where and what is heaven?

HEAVEN

The bible uses the term "heaven" in various ways, but in connection to God (YHWH) it more often than not is speaking about the spiritual realm where God and the angels live (see Mat 6:9).


Is heaven "up"?

No, not literally as it is presented as an entirely different non-physical realm. That said the bible often uses "up" or "above" in a metaphoric sense to convey the idea that God is vastly superior and nothing can escape his notice (compare Isaiah 66:1).




JW




RELATED POSTS



Will Jesus travel back and forth between heaven and earth during the millenium?
viewtopic.php?p=1051377#p1051377

In what sense will God "dwell" (tent) with humans?
viewtopic.php?p=1060794#p1060794

[myth-one.com]

That begs the question of where and what is heaven?

The English language has two meanings for the word heaven or heavens. One is the abode of God and the other is the space around the earth. Rockets can transport one up into the heavens but not to heaven. The context in which the word is used must be considered when determining its meaning.

For example:

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. (Matthew 24:35)

This verse indicates that the present earth and its associated atmosphere shall pass away. Consider the following two verses:

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (John 3:13)

And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (II Kings 2:11)

Both of these verses cannot be true if both references to "heaven" refer to the home of God. Therefore, for both of these verses to be true, Elijah would have to be taken up into the sky by a whirlwind to another part of the earth, and not up to heaven where God resides. The first verse states that no man has ascended up to heaven except Jesus, the Son of Man. No man would include Elijah. Therefore, Elijah went up by a whirlwind into the sky or atmosphere. In addition, if heaven is away from the earth, Second Kings 2:11 is a physical impossibility as translated in the King James Bible! That is, whirlwinds only exist in atmospheres. Whirlwinds cannot occur or travel in the vacuum of space. Therefore, one could not travel through the vacuum of space in a whirlwind to another location. Second Kings 2:11 would better be translated as:

And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into the heavens.

Elijah's mission was completed at that location and his life was in danger as he had angered powerful religious leaders. So God transported him to a safer earthly location through the atmosphere via a whirlwind.

[2ndpillar2]

That begs the question of where and what is heaven?

The English language has two meanings for the word heaven or heavens. One is the abode of God and the other is the space around the earth. Rockets can transport one up into the heavens but not to heaven. The context in which the word is used must be considered when determining its meaning.

For example:

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. (Matthew 24:35)

This verse indicates that the present earth and its associated atmosphere shall pass away. Consider the following two verses:

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (John 3:13)

And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (II Kings 2:11)

Both of these verses cannot be true if both references to "heaven" refer to the home of God. Therefore, for both of these verses to be true, Elijah would have to be taken up into the sky by a whirlwind to another part of the earth, and not up to heaven where God resides. The first verse states that no man has ascended up to heaven except Jesus, the Son of Man. No man would include Elijah. Therefore, Elijah went up by a whirlwind into the sky or atmosphere. In addition, if heaven is away from the earth, Second Kings 2:11 is a physical impossibility as translated in the King James Bible! That is, whirlwinds only exist in atmospheres. Whirlwinds cannot occur or travel in the vacuum of space. Therefore, one could not travel through the vacuum of space in a whirlwind to another location. Second Kings 2:11 would better be translated as:

And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into the heavens.

Elijah's mission was completed at that location and his life was in danger as he had angered powerful religious leaders. So God transported him to a safer earthly location through the atmosphere via a whirlwind.

So, you are saying that the 144,000 are taken into the atmosphere above the earth? Or are the 144,000 protected from the 4 angels in the heavens of God (Revelation 7:3)? Do you use the "English language" for all your insights? This of course negates the message of Yeshua, whereas when the disciples healed the sick, the "kingdom" was at hand, which according the "English language", would be within reach, or accessible. It also apparently negates the "kingdom of God", whereas the "Lord God" judges between the sheep, and then sets up "My servant David" as the shepherd and prince/king. (Ezekiel 34:22-24) And all this happening on the land given to Jacob (Ezekiel 37:24-28).

At hand: readily accessible when needed.
readily available · available · handy · to hand · near at hand · within reach · accessible · ready · close · close by · near · nearby · at the ready · at one's fingertips · at one's disposal · convenient

[2ndpillar2]

That begs the question of where and what is heaven?

HEAVEN

The bible uses the term "heaven" in various ways, but in connection to God (YHWH) it more often than not is speaking about the spiritual realm where God and the angels live (see Mat 6:9).


Is heaven "up"?

No, not literally as it is presented as an entirely different non-physical realm. That said the bible often uses "up" or "above" in a metaphoric sense to convey the idea that God is vastly superior and nothing can escape his notice (compare Isaiah 66:1).

JW

So, are you saying that the 144,000 will not go into a physical realm, but a spiritual realm, whereas they won't need the leaves of the tree of life for healing, or the fruit for sustenance (Revelation 22:2)? What about the dead JWs? Are they not resurrected from their graves into a physical realm to reign with "Christ" (Revelation 20:4)? Do not angels of the LORD eat and drink, as when they ate with Abraham? Do they not reproduce with the daughters of men as in Genesis 6:2? As for Isaiah 66, it is about those whose "soul delights in their abominations", and "eat swine flesh". Do you eat "swine's flesh"? As for the "new heaven and earth" of Isaiah 66:22-24, it will "endure before me", and those "who have transgressed before me".. "their worm shall not die", and "they shall be an abhorrence to all mankind". It kind of sounds like men will be living in an earthly condition, and not a spiritual one. If one wants to enter into life, and become spiritual alive, one might want to consider on how to do it during the time before one is buried (Matthew 19:17).

[myth-one.com]

So, you are saying that the 144,000 are taken into the atmosphere above the earth?

I said nothing about the 144,000.

[2ndpillar2]

So, you are saying that the 144,000 are taken into the atmosphere above the earth?

I said nothing about the 144,000.

The title of this debate is the 144,000. Do they go to heaven or not? And where is the heaven they are supposedly to go to, and when? Where are the dead JWs sitting right now? Don't the JWs associate themselves with the 144,000, although I can see no correlation between them. As for the 144,000, no lie was found on their lips, plus, get this, they were "celibates" (Revelation 14:4). I don't know, but I do know of JWs with kids. That is only plausible if they practice immaculate conception practices.

[JehovahsWitness]

So, are you saying that the 144,000 will not go into a physical realm, but a spiritual realm ...?

REVELATION 14:4b

These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb ...

If they stayed in the physical realm , they would remain "among mankind" but the book of Revelation at the very least there's a change, says they were bought FROM mankind TO God. God lives in heaven, so to join Jesus and his Father they cannot remain in physical realm.

[2ndpillar2]

So, are you saying that the 144,000 will not go into a physical realm, but a spiritual realm ...?

REVELATION 14:4b

These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb ...

If they stayed in the physical realm , they would remain "among mankind" but the book of Revelation at the very least there's a change, says they were bought FROM mankind TO God. God lives in heaven, so to join Jesus and his Father they cannot remain in physical realm.

And where will the "dwelling place" of God be during the kingdom of God, when David is set up as king (Ezekiel 37:24-28). Will it not be with the combined stick of Judah and Ephraim (Ezekiel 37:16).

Ezekiel 37: 27 “My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God, and they will be My people. 28 “And the nations will know that I am the LORD who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forever.”’”