Describing the Christian God

[Jagella]

Question for Debate: How would you describe the Christian god?

The Christian god is an immaterial, timeless, space-less mind which is to say he's made of nothing and exists for no time in no particular place yet exists everywhere for all eternity. Although he's not made of matter he can interact with matter pushing things around and starting fires and floods and plagues and killing lots of people.

One "day" this being decided to create the world we live in by saying so. It should come as no surprise that he thought the results were "good." However, at least two problems existed in this good world. For one thing, God created a really bright angel named Lucifer who got too big for his britches thinking he could be like god. God, not being a proponent of free thought, became angry with Lucifer and cast him and one-third of Lucifer's allied angels out of heaven and down to the earth to cause a lot of trouble there.

Lucifer started the second trouble with the world by disguising himself as a snake and convincing the first woman Eve and her husband Adam to eat some fruit God told them to not to eat. It didn't take long for God to notice the deed, and he soon convened a meeting with Eve, Adam, and the snake. He kicked Eve and Adam out of paradise and made the snake eat dirt.

All was not lost by any means because God promised to send a redeemer to reverse the curse he laid on Eve and Adam and all of their descendants (that's us)--it would just take a while for the redeemer to arrive to save the world--four thousand years to get here!

In the meantime God was very busy with his world that wasn't so good anymore. He made major contributions to this lack of goodness with a world-wide flood and lots of wars he instigated. During this time he chose a people to be holy for him telling them what to do and punishing them if they disobeyed. These people became known as "Jews."

Finally God decided to send the redeemer he promised by getting a Jewish woman pregnant with himself. Evidently seeing sex as beneath him, he never used a penis to get her pregnant but maintained her virginity until she gave birth or even had her remain a virgin perpetually depending on whom you ask.

God named his human self "Jesus" and even started telling people he was made up of three "persons" in one god not bothering to explain the apparent change.

Anyway, God as infant grew up to be God as man and started a ministry. He recruited followers, started showing people his magic, told people they must believe everything he said, and started a fight with the Jewish leaders.

This fight with the Jewish leaders would apparently lead to his undoing in that those Jewish leaders had him executed by the Romans. But you can't keep a good God down, and Jesus as God came back to life. He visited some of his followers, ate some fish, magically walked through a wall, and then floated back up into the sky promising that despite his going away he would still be here.

So ever since then God has his followers eagerly expecting his return to get the job done destroying civilization and casting billions of people into a lake of fire. Until then he has his followers meeting once or twice a week to hear his story, sing off-key hymns, and eat hotdogs at picnics.

Now if anybody is experiencing difficulties believing all of this, they need to get over their doubt. God really hates skepticism and will send you to that lake of fire if you think there isn't one.

[JehovahsWitness]

Incompetent at finding practical solutions:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

Genesis 6:7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.�

ISAIAH 55:8-9

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,� declares the Lord. “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. - NIV

What was the PURPOSE of the Noahic flood?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 813#874813

Why would God choose FLOODING the earth as a method of execution ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 964#874964






JW



RELATED POSTS

Is God best described as "A killer"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 154#959154

Is the God of the bible Tyrannical?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 860#908860

[JehovahsWitness]

Racist:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

Exodus 23:23 New International Version (NIV)
23 My angel will go ahead of you and bring you into the land of the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites and Jebusites, and I will wipe them out.

RACISM

A belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

ACTS 10:34, 35

God is not partial but in every nation the man who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.

QUESTION IS GOD A RACIST?

♦ANSWER No. There is nothing in scripture that conveys the idea that God views certain nationalities was "inherent superiority" to others. On the contrary the bible indicates that all humans are in fact descendants of the same couple and any differences between peoples are purely superficial. As Acts 10:34, 35 illustrates, God's treatment of individuals and nations is based not on this colour, physical characteristics, geographical origins or any "inherent" superioirity but rather on whether they respect his standards of righteousness.







JW

[JehovahsWitness]

Fine with slavery:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

Exodus 21:21 New International Version (NIV)
21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

Why did God tolerate slavery?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 881#908881

Did the Mosaic law encourage SLAVE BEATING?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 027#764027



JW

[JehovahsWitness]

Vengeful:

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearc ... ersion=NIV

Romans 12:19 [Full Chapter]
Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,� says the Lord.

ROMANS 12:19

it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

To be "vengeful" means to seek to avenge/seek vengence. This makes many think of an unlawful unjustified act to harm those who have harmed you. However the word "vengence" is in no way inherently negative*. Note the following :

The Greek word ek·di·keʹo, rendered “avenge,� literally means “from justice,� suggesting that the action represents justice achieved. As used in the Bible, “vengeance� usually applies to retribution paid by God in behalf of justice, but it may also refer to a person’s executing that which he may view as just or as equalizing matters to his own satisfaction - Insight on the Scriptures Vol II p. 11r9 par 1

* Not to be confused with "vindictiveness" (a desire to harm someone because you think they have harmed you: an unwillingness to forgive)

CONCLUSION Being "vengeful" is biblically not a negative trait. It essentially means to render justice. The bible warns believers to ultimately look to God for vengence of legitimate wrongs as only an omnipotent God of love is in a position render perfect justice.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 7 by benchwarmer]


DESCRIBING THE CHRISTIAN GOD

I would describe the God of the bible* as loving and kind.
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 80#p876680


The Bible Encylopedia Insight on the scriptures Vol I p. 968 presents the following definition for GOD

GOD

Anything that is worshiped can be termed a god, inasmuch as the worshiper attributes to it might greater than his own and venerates it. A person can even let his belly be a god. (Ro 16:18; Php 3:18, 19) The Bible makes mention of many gods [...] Hebrew Terms. Among the Hebrew words that are translated “God” is ʼEl, probably meaning “Mighty One; Strong One.”

source: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001729

* The Christian God is presented in scripture as being YHWH (Jehovah) the same God of the Hebrew bible.



FURTHER READING Who is God?
https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/goo ... ho-is-god/


IDENTITY

Which god is the true God?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 25#p960825

WHO is the True God?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 25#p960825

Is God ALMIGHY ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 32#p965632

NATURE

Has anyone ever seen God?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 26#p867226

Does God appear physically to humans? [INDEX]
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 42#p972142

Who made God?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 92#p925192

Can God die?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 77#p951877

What would happen if God died?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 63#p951763

Can God create a rock he cannot move?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 95#p874295

Can a perfect God experience desire?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 40#p797840

Is God PERFECT?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 55#p943655

CHARACTER

Does God love us?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 80#p876680

What are the aspects of God's BEAUTIFUL PERSONALITY?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 44#p869944

Does God have a sense of humour ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 63#p883863

Is JEALOUSY a negative attribute for a God?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 86#p782386

STANDARDS

Does God violate his own moral standards?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 20#p840620

Is God vengeful?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 59#p972259

Is God best described as "A killer"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 54#p959154

Is the God of the bible Tyrannical?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 60#p908860

Does God change His mind?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 49#p972249

Is God racist?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 52#p972252

TITLES

Why is JEHOVAH called in the bible THE Living God?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 97#p940997

What are God's various TITLES (tam)?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 89#p857889

Is Elohim YHWH (Jehovah) presented in scripture as a plural God?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 61#p866661

Why does the bible identify JEHOVAH as "The living God"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 97#p940997

Further reading
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102005131

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

FAITH, GOD and ... EVOLUTION

[Tcg]

I cannot agree. I see the God of the bible as being loving and kind.

How you view your God is irrelevant. Abused spouses often interpret the abuse they suffer at the hands of their abuser as a sign of love and kindness. They would see their spouses as loving and kind even though they are anything but. Those who worship an abusive God can suffer the same delusion.


Tcg

[benchwarmer]

Incompetent at finding practical solutions:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

Genesis 6:7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.�

ISAIAH 55:8-9

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,� declares the Lord. “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. - NIV

What was the PURPOSE of the Noahic flood?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 813#874813

Why would God choose FLOODING the earth as a method of execution ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 964#874964

I'm sorry, but this is laughable IMHO. The premise here is that God chose a flood because that makes a lasting impact? Ridiculous.

1) Modern scientific investigations have found no sign of a global flood, thus all but refuting it ever happened. If you have evidence otherwise, please submit it for peer review. This means the flood story is now basically relegated to myth, even by most Christians who understand modern geology, genetics, etc. Instead of lasting impact, the story is now considered by many to be just more bad fiction.

2) Even if a flood did happen, for the sake of argument, it's effects were pointless. The sinning started again almost immediately (or did it even stop?). How is that lasting impact?

What methods would ACTUALLY have a REAL lasting impact and not just make for a popular story?

1) Break a law of God and immediately, from God, suffer a punishment. This would be ongoing feedback that God is real, deals with His own problems, and makes known to all the effects of sin.

2) If the point was to wipe out sinners, ONLY wipe out sinners. Sin and you are instantly obliterated by God. End of story. No need to kill everything is sight in some pointless tantrum. Every human sins? Well then God made a pretty big mistake and I guess leave the planet to the rest of the animal kingdom.

3) If immediately killing sinners is not palatable (but a flood is???) simply make them sterile. Sinners will not propagate. Evolution in action from God.

The problem, as I see it, is that believers will simply claim "God can do whatever He wants with His creation". Granted, but we are discussing the attributes of this god here. My opinion, based entirely on scripture, is this god described sounds like an immoral human, not an all wise, loving character. If humans can come up with and possess better solutions and morals than this character described in the Bible, then what does that tell you?

[JehovahsWitness]

The premise here is that God chose a flood because that makes a lasting impact? Ridiculous.

And what (if there was a God that does not tolerate wickedness) would be ridiculous about ensuring that his actions in this regard are not forgotten ?

What was the PURPOSE of the Noahic flood?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 813#874813

Why would God choose FLOODING the earth as a method of execution ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 964#874964

2) Even if a flood did happen, for the sake of argument, it's effects were pointless. The sinning started again almost immediately (or did it even stop?). How is that lasting impact?

That would logically depend on the desired effect (the point). If you read my post "What was the PURPOSE of the Noahic flood?" carefully you will see I made no mention of eradicating sin or indefinitely wiping out wickedness, but I did speak of leaving a "impression on mankind" as in creating an event so globally cataclysmic it would leave an indelible record on mankind's collective memory as a lasting testimony to The Creator's justice and power. If that was the "lasting impression" desired it seems that it was mission accomplished as evidenced by the many flood myths all over the world.


JW

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 17 by benchwarmer]

Why are you refering scientific investigations? You offered ONLY scripture to support for your conclusions and I responded in kind. If you want to have a discussion on scientific investigations it might have been an idea not to have initially presented conclusions devoid of reference to science. In any case you are free to proceed as you wish but if YOU can write a series of posts anaylsing scripture, with no prerequisite to prove the veracity of events or characters therein, I don't see why I cannot do the same.



JW

[JehovahsWitness]

What methods would ACTUALLY have a REAL lasting impact and not just make for a popular story?

1) Break a law of God and immediately, from God, suffer a punishment. This would be ongoing feedback that God is real, deals with His own problems, and makes known to all the effects of sin.

That might be an option if the ultimate goal was for God to prove as you put it, He "is real" but the bible makes no mention of this as being the reason for the flood. Indeed scripture is quite clear ..

GENESIS 6:13

I have decided to put an end to all flesh, because the earth is full of violence on account of them, so I am bringing them to ruin together with the earth

So it was to rid the earth of the violence and wickedness that existed at that time, not to prove He is real. Indeed the main source of wickedness were the demons (rebellious angels) who would have had no doubt God existed since presumably they had met him. As for your idea of zapping individuals with a divine cattle prod every time they stepped out of line... (A delightful option of course), but not very wise or very loving (have you never heard of pavlov's dogs). The God of the bible has evidently chosen not to rule by tyranny.

2) If the point was to wipe out sinners, ONLY wipe out sinners. Sin and you are instantly obliterated by God. End of story.

That would have been the end of story alright, the end of all humanity's story that is! Biblically speaking we are e all "sinners" even Noah. No that wouldnt work, God's purpose was and is to save mankind and to do that he needed a long-term vision.

See my post "What was the PURPOSE of the Noahic flood?"
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 813#874813

3) If immediately killing sinners is not palatable (but a flood is???) simply make them sterile. Sinners will not propagate.

The Fabian Society Style Eugenics no less! You might like review my posts on God's personality, in any case, since biblically we are all sinners, forced sterility would be neither loving nor practical. If You read my post above carefully you'll see that the bible indicates there were bigger issues at play which is why, I believe God made the choices he did.

MATTEW 5:45

For He makes His sun rise on evil and good, and He sends rain on righteous and unrighteous.

JW

Why did God intervene in punishing the wicked in Noah's day but refrain from destroying Satan (and Adam and Eve) in Eden?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 65#p908865

Why did God ALLOW such wickedness in Noah's day?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 34#p908734

Why would God choose FLOODING the earth as a method of execution ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 64#p874964