"Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

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"Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #1

Post by Miles »

.


To Note: This OP has came about more as an eye-opener about Jehovah's Witnesses rather than any attempt at disparagement. Recognizing that every religion, denomination, and congregation has the right to operate as best it sees fit under its particular guidelines, my presentation and comments are strictly the result of surprise and befuddlement after watching the video, Shun Your Family.


I've heard of disfellowship among Jehovah's Witnesses before, but never realized the extent it goes to as a disloyalty test. So, what is disfellowship?

"Disfellowship:
To 'remove the wicked
man' or woman from
the congregation
Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.23 simplified edition"

"Jehovah's Witnesses are disfellowshipped for practices such as disagreeing with Watchtower doctrine, smoking or fornication, if judged by the congregation elders as unrepentant. A disfellowshipped person is to be shunned by all family and friends, usually for the remainder of their life, and go through tremendous emotional suffering. Whilst Scriptural precedence limits association with wrongdoers, Watchtower application of disfellowshipping seriously deviates from Bible guidelines.
source


A particularly disturbing comment in the video below:

"We have to put him [Jehovah] before a father, a mother, and even our children if they're disfellowshipped. And if the disfellowshipping of our family is not bad enough, loyalty to Jehovah may mean we even have to endure reproach. We may be hurting because, 'I can't, can't talk to my family member."
(time mark 2:41)


....................


What really amazes me is that the organization refuses to take any responsibility whatsoever for a member becoming "wicked." Yet it does refuse to, and even tells its members refuse to as well. From the video:

"Now we're gonna mention three things NOT to do, and two of them are games not to play.

The first one is, don't play the blame game. Resist self-blame. We may think that we're at fault somehow. Remember that Jehovah holds sinners responsible for their actions. Even young ones that are disfellowshipped . . it's because their relationship with Jehovah was weak.

Avoid the "if only games." "If only we would have preached more, if only I would have talked to them more." "If only we would have done more in the organization. If only. . .If only . . . Don't do that to ourselves
"


It's as if every mother, father, and JW preacher knew exactly how to get through to their children and other members, and actually did so. Think that's true? I don't. I've never heard a JW preacher speak, but I have heard a fair number of other Christian ministers, several of whom were so abysmal they couldn't convince a soaking wet dog to come in out of the rain. Thing is, from time to time we all fail in our relationships with others, and despite the JW philosophy, it isn't always the other guy's fault. Sometimes it's our own, in whole or in part. As willing to listen as a Jehovah's Witness may be it's only reasonable to acknowledge the possible failure of parents and preachers to get through. We don't all come with the same set of responsive abilities. Some of us simply have to be approached from another angle before the message sinks in. So for the sake of those Jehovah's Witnesses who are on the brink of becoming one of the "wicked," as well as their families, I think it would be nice if the organization changed their blame game and acknowledged the part it plays in the failures among its membership.


SO: Do you think I have a point here or not?

.

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #211

Post by tam »

Peace to you timothy,
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 4:31 pm
tam wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:27 pm Peace to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:02 pm
tam wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:20 pm

You did not have the bad experience of being shunned by all of your loved ones and friends in the religion.

Peace again.
What a person feels is a 'bad experience' is subjective.
I have had the experience of being shunned by a person's personal choice. Yes even by family. Sure it's not pleasant, but to me It's not as soul crushing as people here seem make it. This is because I have never made people as the center of what makes me happy.
I thought you said you weren't shunned when you left?
There was no official disfellowshipping in my case. No direction from the podium that I should be avoided. But Jehovah's Witnesses are urged to choose their friends wisely. I was certainly considered bad association and they were right. There were those that wisely made a personal choice to cut all ties with me, and yes not even speak to me. Which at the time it stung a little bit, but I quickly got over it, as there were plenty of distractions and soon I could not have cared less.

Witness or not just about everyone in the world knows someone they shun or make as little contact as possible based on that person's behavior. There are those that are not disfellowshipped that I do not associate with even now.
Thank you for your testimony, timothy. I think that covers any questions that have been somewhat avoided, and the reader can at least see for themselves what the case actually is with regard to shunning.


Peace again to you.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #212

Post by JehovahsWitness »

2timothy316 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:42 pm ...Oy vay! Some people just fight to fight.
viewtopic.php?p=1068289#p1068289
Indeed, which is why I have stuck with this thread, to finally put all the misinformation to bed.


FURTHER READING

Do Jehovah's Witnesses Shun Former Members of Their Religion?
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/shunning/

How to treat a disfellowshipped person?
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102008083

Do Jehovah's Witnesses Break Up Families or Build Them Up?
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/families/




REASONS

Why do Jehovahs Witnesses practise shunning?
viewtopic.php?p=1050045#p1050045

Is biblical shunning both scriptural and loving? Questions & Answers
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 71#p895871

When is disfellowshipping/shunning justified?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 72#p895672


What model do the Jehovah's Witnesses adhere to that governs their ecclesiastical lives?
viewtopic.php?p=1029087#p1029087

Why do Jehovah's Witnesses allow repentant sinners to remain in the faith?
viewtopic.php?p=1060185#p1060185


LEAVING THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
Is it true there are two different ways to leave "diassociate" oneself from the Jehovahs Witness faith?
viewtopic.php?p=1066724#p1066724

Can a member leave the Jehovahs Witnesses religion without being shunned by friends and family?
viewtopic.php?p=1066622#p1066622

Is there verifiable documented proof that some ex-witnesses formerly ask to be shunned?
viewtopic.php?p=1066724#p1066724

Do Jehovah's Witnesses have to hide their reasons for leaving the religion from friends and family to avoid being shunned?
viewtopic.php?p=1066677#p1066677

Can a baptised Witness that has already left the organisation be disfellowshipped?
viewtopic.php?p=1066460#p1066460

Why don't many ex-witness support groups emphasis that leaving does NOT equate to being shunned?
viewtopic.php?p=1066583#p1066583
PROCEDURE

Does the bible really authorize its leadership to expel members from its community?
viewtopic.php?p=1068987#p1068987

How do Jehovah's Witnesses ensure published policy is carried out?
viewtopic.php?p=1065143#p1065143

Can entire congregation unilaterally "unofficially" shun a member ?
viewtopic.php?p=1066088#p1066088

Why post official JW protocol? Is it faithfully applied?
viewtopic.php?p=1066775#p1066775

MOTIVES

Do Jehovahs Witnesses shun former members?
viewtopic.php?p=1065834#p1065834

Are people disfellowshipped for internet debating?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 43#p895843

Do JWs disfellowship for watching the wrong movies or or listening to the wrong music?
viewtopic.php?p=1065008#p1065008

Do JWs disfellowship for reading non approved books ?
viewtopic.php?p=1066508#p1066508

Can a Jehovah's Witness join another church without being disfellowshipped?
viewtopic.php?p=1066416#p1066416

Can a Jehovah's Witness be shunned for talking with a disfellowshipped person?
viewtopic.php?p=1068944#p1068944

Are Jehovah's Witnesses free to choose who they associated with?
viewtopic.php?p=1068960#p1068960
MARRIAGE MATES
Do JWs see shunning /disfellowshiping as grounds for DIVORCE?
viewtopic.php?p=1032193#p1032193

Do Jehovahs Witnesses break up marriages?
viewtopic.php?p=1032157#p1032157

How are Jehovahs Witnesses taught to treat marriage partners that do not agree with their religion?
viewtopic.php?p=1032167#p1032167

Do Jehovahs Witnesses believe the biblical directive to cut off all contact with an APOSTATE applies to marriage mates?
viewtopic.php?p=1032256#p1032256
CHILDREN

How do Jehovah's Witnesses treat their disfellowshipped or disassociated children ?
viewtopic.php?p=1062333#p1062333

Are members disciplines for neglecting their child if it no longer wishes to continue in the faith?
viewtopic.php?p=1066260#p1066260

Are children 18 and over cast out of the family home if they are disfellowshipped or disassociated?
viewtopic.php?p=1066420#p1066420

Are ex-witnesses forced to choose between their beliefs and their family?
viewtopic.php?p=1066408#p1066408
TREATMENT
How do Jehovah's Witnesses treat ex-members FRIENDS ?
viewtopic.php?p=1066328#p1066328

Are shunned individuals still allowed to attend church services?
viewtopic.php?p=1077543#p1077543
To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , DISFELLOWSHIPPING / SHUNNING and ... ORGANISATIONAL INFALLIBILITY
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Fri May 13, 2022 10:16 pm, edited 9 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #213

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

onewithhim wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:12 pm That would be anyone in mankind who will accept what he did and follow in his footsteps. But the actual celebration of the drinking wine and eating the bread is reserved for only the 144,000. The rest of us observe this celebration by supporting those brothers and sisters who are of the 144,000. We rejoice with them.
Hmm. Lets see..

So suppose I am offering a "free lunch" program...and I am outside holding a sign that says...

"Anyone who is hungry and wants great tasting food, come inside for a free meal".

And you are riding past and see me holding the sign, and you decide to come inside for a free meal after a long journey.

However, once you begin to go inside, I stop you and say..

"I'm sorry, but in order to enter you must be over 6'0 tall, with brown eyes".

And you look at the sign and say "But the sign says ANYONE can have a meal".

And my response; "Yeah, "anyone", as in anyone who is over 6'0 tall, with brown eyes". :lol:

But that stipulation isn't laid out in the sign, is it? The point is, Jesus isn't falsely advertising his kingdom.

If only 144k can enter, then not only isn't that "anyone", as he clearly stated...but it would also mean that those not included in the 144k wouldn't have eternal life (vs 54)..unless you are saying that John 3:16 was also only speaking of the 144k who would receive eternal life.

I mean, c'mon. With all due respect, onewithhim, this is just bad hermeneutics, and I know full well you don't believe it.
Venni Vetti Vecci!!

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #214

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

2timothy316 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:02 pm What a person feels is a 'bad experience' is subjective.
Yeah, and on the flip side, what a person feels as a "good experience" is also subjective.

That being said, if a person is/was being sexually abused (per real life allegations)...you wouldn't classify this negative experience as "subjective", would you?

But anyway, as I was saying; you came across with this "look at me, it didn't happen to me" approach...and I said what I said, and properly so.

It was, in my opinion, a very cavalier way of looking at things.
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:02 pm I have had the experience of being shunned by a person's personal choice. Yes even by family. Sure it's not pleasant, but to me It's not as soul crushing as people here seem make it. This is because I have never made people as the center of what makes me happy.
Well again, that is you. How about showing some empathy towards those who've spent their entire lives being dependent upon the love of others (after all, God is love, right?), and to have it being taken away from them at the drop of a hat because they've chose to leave a man-made organization of whom falsely claims to be God's chosen people....is, evil and has no place in God's word or his kingdom.
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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #215

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

onewithhim wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:19 pm
I'm sorry, but ex-witnesses leave a lot out of their complaints. If you knew the whole story you might look at it differently. I've known several JWs who were disfellowshipped and became EX-JWs. Their mis-deeds were always down-played and they just squawked about how unfair the elders were to call them on the carpet.
More talk about disfellowshipping, when I am specifically talking about disassociating, where the only "mis-deed" would be a person who no longer considers the WTS the "truth", and to leave the organization because of it.

Any commentary on that? Or will a straw man continue to be attacked?
onewithhim wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:19 pm There are always two sides to the story, and you just have heard the unchristian exwitnesses' side of it.
Ok, so if a person disassociates himself and says "I no longer believe the WTS is "the truth", and am leaving the organization entirely".

I guess the response from active witnesses will be "Oh, thats cool. We are still playing poker tonight, right? Bout 8pm? Ok, I will bring the booze".

Do you honestly think that that will happen? No. We both know that it isn't going down like that.
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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #216

Post by JehovahsWitness »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 10:17 am
How about showing some empathy towards those who've spent their entire lives being dependent upon the love of others (after all, God is love, right?), and to have it being taken away from them at the drop of a hat because they've chose to leave a man-made organization of whom falsely claims to be God's chosen people....
Are you suggesting that there is no way to leave the Jehovah's Witness religion without being shunned?













FAMILY AND FRIENDS
How do Jehovah's Witnesses treat their disfellowshipped or disassociated children ?
viewtopic.php?p=1066260#p1066260

How do Jehovah's Witnesses treat friends and family that choose to distance themselves from the organisation?
viewtopic.php?p=1066328#p1066328

Are ex-witnesses forced to choose between their beliefs and their family? [This post]
viewtopic.php?p=1066408#p1066408

Are children 18 and over cast out of the family home if they are disfellowshipped or disassociated?
viewtopic.php?p=1066420#p1066420

LEAVING THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
Can a member leave the Jehovahs Witnesses religion without being shunned by friends and family ?
viewtopic.php?p=1066622#p1066622

Can a baptised Witness that has already left the organisation be disfellowshipped?
viewtopic.php?p=1066460#p1066460

Can a Jehovah's Witness join another church without being disfellowshipped?
viewtopic.php?p=1066416#p1066416

Is it true some people make formal requests to be shunned?
viewtopic.php?p=1066724#p1066724

DISINFORMATION
Why don't many ex-witness support groups emphasis that leaving does NOT equate to being shunned?
viewtopic.php?p=1066583#p1066583
To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , DISFELLOWSHIPPING/ SHUNNING and ... ORGANISATIONAL INFALLIBILITY
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat Feb 26, 2022 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #217

Post by JehovahsWitness »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 10:30 amso if a person disassociates himself and says "I no longer believe the WTS is "the truth", and am leaving the organization entirely".

I guess the response from active witnesses will be "Oh, thats cool. We are still playing poker tonight, right? Bout 8pm? Ok, I will bring the booze".

Do you honestly think that that will happen? No. We both know that it isn't going down like that.

What has that got to do with our organisation? Jehovahs Witnesses are free to meet up with whoever they wish and develop or withdraw from any relationships (frienships) they see fit.


Why should individual Jehovahs Witnesses be denied the rights every atheist, agnostic and Christian that has never belonged to an organised religion has, namely to choose their associated and friends? Why are Jehovahs Witnesses the only people on earth that have to forfeit that right to choose their own friends for fear of being stigmatized?

  • If you or any other atheist chooses not to associated with someone, they are not criticised (it is understood that is nobody's business but their own, and they must have their reasons)
  • If a scientist does the same they too are not criticised (it is understood that is nobody's business but their own, and they must have their reasons)
  • If a Jehovah's Witnesses does the same they all hell breaks loose and they are criticised for being brainwashed automats - even though their organisation does not interfere in personal relationships that do not effect others on a congregatioral level.

The utter hypocracy of those that freely chose to cut off their crazy cousin Phil that offered their son crack or yes, that former drinking buddy that found Jesus and now only wants to talk about the Lord, but attacks Jehovahs Witnesses for exercising the same rights to protect themselves and their children from what they consider toxic relationships or just plain frienship they have outgrown, is mind-boggljng.

The bottom Line is everybody chooses their friends based on common interests and mutuel respect, it is disingenuous for anyone to imply that one particular group should be criticised for doing what they themselves also do (unless they claim to still have every friend they ever made) and is a basic human freedom just because their religion has organisational standards.
To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , DISFELLOWSHIPPING/SHUNNING and ... ORGANISATIONAL INFALLIBILITY
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sun Feb 27, 2022 5:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #218

Post by onewithhim »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 10:30 am
onewithhim wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:19 pm
I'm sorry, but ex-witnesses leave a lot out of their complaints. If you knew the whole story you might look at it differently. I've known several JWs who were disfellowshipped and became EX-JWs. Their mis-deeds were always down-played and they just squawked about how unfair the elders were to call them on the carpet.
More talk about disfellowshipping, when I am specifically talking about disassociating, where the only "mis-deed" would be a person who no longer considers the WTS the "truth", and to leave the organization because of it.

Any commentary on that? Or will a straw man continue to be attacked?
I think we have covered everything to be said about this already. I'm surprised that you haven't gotten the sense of what was said.

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #219

Post by onewithhim »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 10:30 am
onewithhim wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:19 pm

Ok, so if a person disassociates himself and says "I no longer believe the WTS is "the truth", and am leaving the organization entirely".

I guess the response from active witnesses will be "Oh, thats cool. We are still playing poker tonight, right? Bout 8pm? Ok, I will bring the booze".

Do you honestly think that that will happen? No. We both know that it isn't going down like that.
The bottom line is.....who loves Jehovah and who does not? We believe that anyone leaving the organization entirely does not want to serve Jehovah any longer, or have a relationship with Him. Why play poker with someone who says they are done with Jehovah and His organization? The most important part of that is leaving Jehovah. There is no place to go if we leave Him. No other religion honors Him.

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Re: "Shocking Jehovah's Witness Convention Talk Telling Parents To Shun Children"

Post #220

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #215]

You say that our organization is man-made and you deride our belief that Jehovah has always had an organization, and you say other derogatory things. Can you just respect our deeply-held beliefs and stop making fun of us for believing certain things? We are not wishy-washy as you might at first have thought, so to attack us is not benefiting anybody.

We believe Christ is our reigning King and that he will rule the whole planet someday soon. How much more honor can we give to Christ? You say that we should believe in Christ, and we do. What else can you say that would seem to be a better place to go?

.

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